Stop Me Before I Vote Again

You want a bunch of people who regularly agree never to vote again to justify voting schemes?

It doesn't matter if a mouse is black or white, so long as it catches cats.

so far nothing but rejectionism

our ice palace mocklodite friend
with his usual inversions of reversions
or is it reversions of inversions ...

and of course
the ever darker then thou
crow fly

the night was never so long ...

There's something to be said for delegate and direct democracy. Representative democracy as it actually exists is a grudging adherence to the letter and a hobnail kick to the spirit.

It doesn't matter if a mouse is black or white, so long as it catches cats.

That sums it up.

Capitalism entails so much violent governance and so much oligarch-coddling that it poisons people's ability to consider social realities. I'm impressed when the democratic process works out positively, in spite of everything arrayed against reasonable outcomes.

jeez op... the intent was not rejection or mockery. Al got it, and I would think that you of all people would be a bit more receptive to a little aphorism

Settle down, op. You can't take a question with an eye twinkle and a sly smile?

It isn't elections per se; but elections that are in danger of electing someone America don't want.

Fb
I like that line

tone problem I guess in my response
I was hoping to get our handful of pluralists to defend the enlightenment system of citizen rights

Sorry it came off as it did
Then again a swift kick in the smarty pants might do you more good
then you
Know

The aphorism was apt and captures the ferocity of the big B state
When the people try to tame it

However it's the weak emerging state that is at issue in thesepost
Topple set ups
And it's these Quasi inchoate proto

systems choices that I want to focus on

as a weapon of a sharply connected instutionally embroidered top class against the muddle of the people

Owen, do you think the emerging state shakeouts present opportunities?

"Then again a swift kick in the smarty pants might do you more good
then you
Know"

OK. I think you're wanted at the Department of Pots and Kettles. It's over on the far side of Narcissus' Pond.

I suspect that something resembling free and fair elections throughout the Arab countries ---- not as be-all-and-end-all, of course --- would rock Uncle's and Israel's world, especially in US-propped autocracies, which have governed counter to the will of their huge majorities. Might be a fun and illuminating exercise. Just a hunch.

Is my (and Owen's) old pal 'pragmatos' still reading this blog? He's interested in voting systems and believes that some are better than others, if I've understood him correctly. I tend to adopt a Philistine skepticism on the whole subject, myself. I don't really understand Arrow's theorem, but I firmly believe that it confirms all my prejudices.

A kick in the pants all round! (I personally claim sovereign immunity, however.)

Instead of generalizing, let's go case by case. Have elections been shown to be a sham in Egypt, yet? Has the King of Jordan replaced the cabinet he dismissed with more of the same? Did not Hizbullah choose the winning candidate in recent elections in Lebanon? If Fatah and Hamas agree to a single election in Palestine is that meaningless?

And, the west hasn't finished its brutalizing display in Libya. Could that play into the hands of radical parties in both the new democracies and the monarchies?

Ceteris paribus, Corporate presents the greater danger. If common lots can use the remainder of the Rump State to make life difficult for corporate, a la Wisconsin or Ohio, then I see no particular reason to grumble on cue.

And Uncle Sam gets the bulk of his walking money from doing things for Corporate. Big G isn't borrowing and printing for the little guy.

Hurting Corporate hurts the feds and the state governments in the larger former colonies. Going after the governments doesn't really hurt Corporate.

So while voting might be a bunch of tiddlywinks, it's got the dirty allegation of communality all over it. It's anti-corporate, especially in the right hands.

Or something like that.

In these matters, I take my pleasures where I can find them, especially when Uncle is in any way trumped by its propaganda about the sacred voting booth. Hamas' election victory warmed the heart, as did Mahmoud's buzzer-beater. I suspect similar elections throughout Arabia would produce similar happy feelings.

When an Uncle stooge declares something about the beauty and sanctity of elections, then is immediately undermined by election results such as those above, I get an extra bounce in my step.

al

"emerging state shakeouts present opportunities"

in some sense all change is worth celebrating

but globalization is behind it obviously
and more globalization is ahead of it too
in this instance change will probably lead
to greater intergration
of north africa with europe following the course of say turkey
ie
i don't see any irans here in the maghreb

the persian gulf states in wrangle
is another matter
and there
the upheavels are being stuffed down

the shia menace i still have great hopes there
from lebanon to the gulf

as to israel/palestine's immediate neighbors
jordan and syria
i leave that to dedicated fanatics

" it's got the dirty allegation of communality all over it."
that gets at its up side very nicely

but its like many things
wonderful the first time
and wonderful again when long denied
but on a regular basis
pulling the lever
when up agaisnt an implacable
class dominate state system
regardless of choice
--even if the dom-class is your own --
it fades rapidly into an ugly routine

an insignifigance ritual

basically
"how 'bout tonite ? "

"yeeesssss ..dearrrr "

"Hamas' election victory warmed the heart"
agree completely

the record certainly shows
uncle will defy
his sacred beliefs
in any "away game"
when
(as crow calls em )

"corporate"'s dog doesn't win
some local contest

OP, Uncle defies them so often, they are neither sacred nor beliefs.

voting can provide political legitimacy

inside

a condition of state capture

what is 'state capture'?

"We define state capture as the efforts of firms to shape the laws, policies, and regulations of the state to their own advantage by providing illicit private gains to public officials. ...
...
"In particular, we emphasize the importance of mechanisms through which firms seek to shape decisions taken by the state to gain specific advantages...

"Because such firms use their influence to block any policy reforms that might eliminate these advantages, state capture has become not merely a symptom but also a fundamental cause of poor governance. In this view, the capture economy is trapped in a vicious circle in which the policy and institutional reforms necessary to improve governance are undermined by collusion between powerful firms and state officials who reap substantial private gains from the continuation of weak governance."
[Daniel Kaufmann, 2001]

capture is a useful concept
when applied to class fractional interests

recent
"advances "in institutional poli econ con
have arrived at a fairly serviceable version of class states which suggests dominant classes establish states in their own image

in that context capture suggests
the internal inter group intra class struggle
has victors that can punch loop holes in the madisonian filter
ie the internal mechanism of mutually counter acting clashing interests in a large and diverse enough legislature
where anti public special interests
knock each other off
leaving
only rough approximations of a general interest to emerge into law

recall the olson movement upset
the rationale for this very 18th century
notion of a "natural " positive outcome

for recent phylogenic surprises
within academic poli econ con
there's
the new institutional economics
see Daron Acemoglu

hegel's evolutionary state
without the erudition