Stop Me Before I Vote Again

Ko$ looks like the self-satified twerp I'd always imagined, but whose that vaguely sinister guy lurking behind General Bloodbath? He looks like a extra from The Omen remake.

"The word "progressive" was frequently invoked, but either everybody agrees on just what that means or nobody wanted to get into it"

perfect pitch

Always interesting how the people who see themselves as the far left use the tactics of the far right. What's the point of your being in disguise at YK if you're not there to analyze what's supposedly wrong with an individual's speech, but to tear down their looks? If you have a problem with Clark's speech, tell us. I'm sure someone could give a creepy description of you, too --- what's the point? How does sharing that honor your ethical/moral beliefs? YOu seemed to be criticizing the idea of victory at all costs, yet your desire to say something nasty about Clark and Markos looks just like Rush Limbaugh making comments about the left. If you've got a problem with what they're saying, tell us. But sneering just suggests you're as willing to sacrifice justice for partisanship as members of the Bush Administration.

Enjoying the heck out of this!

I find myself stuck reading and posting at times on DailyKos. More from a lack of any better place to get involved than any general attraction to the content there. Usually I'm giving the Dems a hard time over their support for their war (hmmm, "their war" was a freudian typo, but I like it so I'll leave it!), their blind support for any candidate with a (D) after their name, reminding Clark supporters that he's a war criminal, occaisionally agreeing with them on how the Republicans suck, etc.

I love your description of their convention. Pretty much what expected. Obviously I didn't go! Keep up the great reporting!

What I'm most tempted to do is to cut and paste this into a diary on DailyKos and see if I can stir up trouble. But I think I'll wait a few days. I don't want to blow your cover. The extra from the Omen might come after you!

"If you have a problem with Clark's speech, tell us "
tell us
tell us
tell us
we can help make it all okay

pod people ish eh ??

just saw a nice doc on driver ants

they make their queens hive out of
their living bodies

talk about trailer trash

---------------------

"I'm sure someone could give a creepy description of you, too --- '

ya i can .....

Indeed. JSP could tell some very creepy stuff indeed about me, but we have known each other for a long time, and I have a Nuclear Option. 'Nuff said, JSP?

I find that the Daily Kos is probably the most open of the "progressive" democratic party sites, mostly beause of the slashdot style of self-moderation.

Ever read "Atrios"? Say anything even mildly critical of the Democrats and you'll have a swarm of commentators following you around typing "VOTE FOR NADER" or "zzzzzzzz" every time you post.

But you're right. The self-moderation system effectively censors any discussion about Israel and the Palestinians. They get "troll rated" into the hidden comments/diaries section shortly after they're posted.

If you really want to see an example of pure, balls out liberal democratic racism, try this place.

http://stevegilliard.blogspot.com/2006/06/huh.html

The images of the Palestinians are right out of Der Sturmer.

Catherine, do you think it's remotely possible that Michael was not, in fact, wearing a fake beard and a dress? That is the disguise he claimed to be wearing. Even deliberately humorless wingnuts might pick up a clue from that. It's very sad that you cannot.

The rest of the information you're seeking, mirabile dictu, can be found on this site. Most people read a good bit of web publisher's work before commenting. They read with a good faith effort at understanding if they plan to interact. By so doing, there's less of a chance of looking like a fool. If you did the same, you could avoid wasting people's time by insisting they recapitulate the entirety of the reasoning that got them where they are today. Only flying monkey wingnuts with psychic powers think they can judge by a single blog entry.

Stanley -- I haven't spent much time on Atrios, I admit. Life is short. But the zzzzz technique, whenever Israel is mentioned, is pretty common on Kos, too. Check this one out.

COBear,

You've outed yourself here as a potential Daily Kos troll. Yet, when I look at your history, I wonder who you're trying to fool:

http://www.dailykos.com/user/uid:21976

Are you hanging out there to raise shit or not? I'm no longer a member there. I just want to know the real story.

I saw Kos on the Colbert Report back a few months. He struck me as charismatic, intelligent, and firmly trapped by the Democrats. Not a bad person, made cogent points about candidates he liked, and then finished with "but mostly I like any candidate with a D at the end of their name."

The simplest statement to describe politics is, and always been, "power corrupts." Kos, Atrios, the lefty bloggers with the followings are not bad people. Through a combination of luck, intelligence, and in Kos's case, I'll even say genius, they've become the "gatekeepers" of the left-wing internets. They've achieved power, and slowly gravitated towards what appears to be the center of their power, the Democratic Party.

An opposite reaction appears to have happened to Al Gore. His surrender speech was a withdrawal from politics, and much of his behavior, a rejection of power. His critiques of the Bush administration are often spot on. But I have no doubts that if he were a Senator, he'd be right there with Lieberman and Kerry and Clinton and Biden, marching lockstep in the chorus of "tactical" dissapproval of Bush's war.

So here are our Kosniks. Most of them wonderful people. Most of them to the left of the people at Yearly Kos they're there to see. Most of them would be exactly like the "leaders" if they were one.

Which is part of the reason I'm so fond of Billmon. When confronted with the power of his blogging, he runs away. It's refreshing.

Kos the MOST OPEN progressive website, Stanley? No way.

Whenever I have posted about the Green Party there, I get hugely flamed. But, I should say "got," not "get," because that's just the tip of the iceberg of intolerance.

People (including me) have gotten banned from there recently in the dust-up over the "outing" of Armando, a frequent Kos poster.

Not "outing" for being gay, of course.

"Outing" of the public knowledge of him being not just a lawyer, but a partner, at big bad corporate law firm McConnell Valdes.

Clients? Wal-Mart, which really kicked this off around the blogosphere.

But that's mild. Try Altria, nee Philip Morris. Four members of Big Pharma. And more.

Read about it on my blog, here:
http://socraticgadfly.blogspot.com/2006/06/armandos-and-mcconnell-valds-corporate.html

Scroll down from there and read more about this below hat.

Gadfly,
You were banned from Daily Kos over racist comments you made about Armando, so now you're posting his firm's entire client list as some sort of sophomoric revenge? And you call yourself a left-winger? Or adult for that matter?

SocraticGadfly, why out him? You'd feel like hell if someone used that to hurt him. It's the work of less than an hour to find out where he lives with that information. Given the dispositions of the nutters who make use of that kind of knowledge, it opens up him and everyone who lives with him to crank calls, at the least, and possibly nastier forms of harrassment.

Holy John Hoyt! Ya make just one reference to The Omen and look what happens.

gadfly and armando outing
is off my scope

besides the guy
has prolly flown back
to his Dallas crack
in the wall, having depositited his blog link
never to return anyway

but i see no reason to jump down
his blow hole here

----------------------------
btw
his site on a very brief run by
shows elements
of anti orthrian sympatico

agin kerry in 04
agin the war in winter 03
god bless him

and a godless wool gatherer too

i confess
despite my personal big T
totalization dreams

a willful contrarian
like this chap
appeals to me

not every one needs to enjoy the harness
eh fellahs ???

canal ponies
and saw horses
we got in spades
here in job country

a few arm chair mustangs
can't hurt

"People (including me) have gotten banned from there recently in the dust-up over the "outing" of Armando, a frequent Kos poster.

Not "outing" for being gay, of course."

I'd make a distinction between rules against content and rules against violating anonymity.

I make no effort to stay anonymous online but that's my own choice. Some people do. It's not necessarily related to politics or the Democratic party because I also know communist groups where people make an effort to stay anonymous.

But where I would agree with you is on the issue of the greens. If you really want to see "progressive" democrats bear their fangs, it's about third parties.

While you can occasionally get away with criticizing the Israelis on sites like Atrios or the Daily Kos, any mention of a third party will get you ostracized pretty quickly.

The trick to not getting banned at The Daily Kos, of course, is to rack up a lot of positive ratings by commenting in small diaries that people are greatful to get feedback on. Then they rate your comments up and give you some protection against "the autoban".

"But where I would agree with you is on the issue of the greens. If you really want to see "progressive" democrats bear their fangs, it's about third parties. While you can occasionally get away with criticizing the Israelis on sites like Atrios or the Daily Kos, any mention of a third party will get you ostracized pretty quickly."

Holy moly, is that ever true. To most Kossites I've encountered, Green Party mmebers are ranked lower than Nazis on the morality meter. And they'll continually refer one to Markos's own FAQ posting, declaring that Kos is not a liberal blog, or a progressive blog, it's a Democratic blog, dedicated to (and only to) the election of Democratic candidates. As such, it seems, Kos is telling us that promoting Zell Miller there is fine. Promoting Bernie Sanders is not. Dianne Feinstein: God. Peter Camejo: The Devil.

"If you don't like it," the Kossites will say, "go away and find a different blog that's more to your liking."

Is it possible that this may be that blog?

Though I'm a Green, I don't hate all Dems. Heck, I just got done volunteering major hours to a Dem candidate (Marcy Winograd). So, if hatred of the Democratic Party is a prerequisite for participation in this blog, then maybe I'm in the wrong place. But I *do* happen to be sickened by those who prize party loyalty over progressive principles, and, as such, I find DKos's stated mission (and those who elect themselves to enforce it) very, very unsettling. And I find the cult of Markos among progressives who seem unaware that Markos specifically disavows progressive principles (or *all* principles, really) quite misplaced.

Patrick Meighan
Venice, CA

Hatred of the Democratic Party is not a prerequisite. It's more a matter of understanding what a trap for Lefties -- or progressives, if you prefer -- the Democratic Party is. I suppose in theory it could become something different, but that doesn't strike me as a likely outcome of any scenario that I've ever heard. The idea that the Kosniks are going to "take it back" and turn it into a force for good just seems laughable on its face.

pm...in kos fashion
i say...
welcome to our community

to answer your conditional

"if hatred of the Democratic Party is a prerequisite for participation in this blog"

it absolutely is not

i'm a dem par example ...
a neo barn burner dem
to be more precise

(vide the new york dem party in the 1840's
for the originals
high lite:
they broke away to join the free soil party
in 48
and led the way
to a dem prez race defeat
knowingly and with relish
over the slave exstension issue
it was not about victory
but about wehats right
not entirely un like
nader in 2000)

------------------
in
the spirit of principle
over winnery
my part of
this site opposes
thatwing of the dem party
that operates
under corporate control
the part bryan
tried to shoo out for twenty years
b4 caving
to the prog fraud
st woodrow of princeton

unfortunately that wing the wall street
bob rubin st hillary
hawk wing
and its proggle switch
boot blacks
control the national party
and all the state party orgs too

yes t'is true
for about 9 months in 1972 that control slipped away nationally ..in part

but perhaps u recall what the McG take over
led to ...
so
the restoration was a walk over the next year
and has held tight
ever since

my mission drive em out
or
brake the party in two tryin'

hence me place here as
deputy doddler
out
"our" kult leader
and master of ceremony
snuffy smiff's wrong side

I just posted this in my Daily Kos dairy at http://www.dailykos.com/user/carlwebb so if anyone here reads Daily Kos, please post a positive comment to counter-act all of the negative ones.

I'm still chuckling over the "counterculture-- what is it?" spiel on Kos from last week. Some yo-yo attributed The Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers to Robert Crumb. I'm still a couple of weeks short of forty and even I know it was Gilbert Shelton, not Crumb. Yeesh.

Today, somebody over there was all a-twitter over the idea that Dana Owens aka Queen Latifah might run as a Democrat for-- something. These are the people who'll broil you alive without a backwards glance if you bring up the Green candidates like Chretien or Zeese. Candidates who, wonder of wonders, are experienced in political matters and who actually espouse opinions that align with the supposed prog values. No matter. The cult of celebrity, bags of money, and fresh-faced inexperience on political matters is a-ok, as long as it involves the Blue team and not the Red. Ho hum.

Owens is a fine performer, though Hollywood doesn't give her much interesting stuff to do ("Bringing Down the House" --shudder !") But please excuse me if I don't think that celebs are going to save America any more today than they did yesterday.

And the internal battle from Daily Kos spills over to the external threat. Tactically, is it wise to give them actual "trolls in the midst" to bring th Kosniks together, when they could be spending their time outing each other and Ken Mehlman?

I'm not sure, but when I hear the word "unelectable" it might be time to stop reading the comments.

Did you take too many drugs back in the '60s? Or maybe last week?

Wes Clark may not be a perfect physical specimen... certainly no worse than any 60yo man I know, and more than made up for by his intellectual prowess and more balls than most other big-name Democrats combined. But calling him "pigeon-chested" is about like calling Kerry short or Edwards bald.

Tell me your blog is satire.

Did you take too many drugs back in the '60s? Or maybe last week?

pigeon chested does not mean the same as
chicken chested
even though chicken chested itself hardly fits a chicken's chest

sunken chestedclark is not

a puffed out chest
is a pigeon chest
with or without lsd

now
pigeon toed
is another thing....
ding walking is in fact
quite good evidence of athletic acumen
i've
often noticed pigeon toe stridery
on domestic murderer
o j simpson
who is also
pigeon breasted
though not
pigeon shouldered in fact given the diff in anatomy
we humans can't be both p chested and p shouldered at the same moment don't believe me
try it yourself in front of a mirror

but hell none disrespect
of a pard's bod
is
implied by pigeon chest
labeling

beyond a pompous self assurance

quite natural to a military man
my guess doc smiff
was not claiming
wes ain't
rilly ripped for an old dude

Thank you for noting the Israeli lobby in your article! You might be an old Sixties leftist, but I'm an old Seventies ex-right wing extremist and my views have changed a bit since then-but not on the Zionists. I can remember how the leftists would holler when we'd show up at the anti-war demonstrations.Yes, I'm ashamed to say I was part of a group that believed in bombing Hanoi back to the stone age.But we also were anti-Zionist. So from different backgrounds and perspectives we seem to have come to at least one conlusion in common.

[snort] The party that owns the anti-war movement lock, stock and barrel (and will rip monumental gashes in any churl who says otherwise) has channelled that same movement into creaming itself in public over some high-ranking ex-Reaganite bloodthirsty fuckwit who is still proud of every bit of fuckwittery he performed for Hailburt-- er, I meant the Stars and Stripes. (Thank You, Michael Moore and mini-Moores. After the first episode in this particular ongoing soap, I was able to throw my ippecac away for good.)

I think that satire was dead months before Smith got here, the drug quality issues notwithstanding.

I lost about 20,000 hit's on Google all of a sudden! Wonder if that had anything to do with Daily Kos deleting dairy entries and comments like the one below:

Daily Kos: Who is Carl Webb?

You could have been more concise and clear in that other diary and, at the very least, introduced Carl Webb and made your case. This would encompass the use ...
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/7/5/1316/45645 - 32k - Cached - Similar pages

But for some reason the still left the one that pissed them off:

Progressive Dems Suppress Anti-War Dissent Hotlist
by carlwebb [Subscribe]
Tue Jun 13, 2006 at 11:32:59 PM PDT

So you think the Democrats are the good guys? The anti-war party? When will we wake up and realize that we're just in the game called "Bad Cop/Good Cop" where both players are just as evil?

Good Cop/Bad Cop is a psychological tactic:

The 'Bad Cop' behaves negatively toward the subject. In general raising the subject's antipathy. This sets the stage for the 'Good Cop' to deceptively act supportive, understanding, defensive, and in general show sympathy for the subject, which may make the subject cooperative towards the latter.

Then you need to read this article by MEDEA BENJAMIN

Medea Benjamin is the cofounder of CODEPINK: Women for Peace and Global Exchange. For Hillary Clinton's position on the war, go to http://www.ListenHillary.org. She can be reached at: medea@globalexchange.org
http://www.counterpunch.org/benjamin06132006.html