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The home of lost causes

By Michael J. Smith on Monday August 8, 2011 06:23 PM

That's where I am this week -- long story -- with a full schedule, by my lazy standards, and intermittent Internet access. But feel free to use this occasion as an open thread.

Comments (118)

I'd like to start off this thread by asking where that picture is from. I know Mikey hints at it, but I never was good at 'Where In the World is Carmen San Diego?'.


thats the Christ Church Cathedral in Oxford.

You could hit a home run over that fancy left field wall with a pop-fly past third. Wait a minute. What have the done with the pitcher's mound?



Smith is going to do some bell ringing.


MJS, "That's where I am this week -- long story"

OK, well: Long story short please?

Oxford! I should have known. I mean I did graduate from there after all.

Son of Uncle Sam:

I always thought it (Oxford) would look more like Harvard, I never google imaged it,... sort of a let down.



Picking up any insights into the UK riots or the OU perspective on same?

Al Schumann:

I've found riots a serious letdown. I'm not a conservative, but I do believe quite strongly in appropriate, even tasteful looting. Anyone can be a brick-throwing, crowbar-toting philistine. It takes discernment to loot in ways that yield a social benefit as well as personal satisfaction.


Kids burning Foot Lockers is a social benefit.


I recall the great black out of 1977
In nueva York
What a blessing t'was

Why colored folks were driving pick ups right off dick gridirons lot
And the after math was a whole new generation of color tv's
In the cities job class neighborhoods

Those were high times and tall spirits
" the lord turned out the lights and gave us
Workin people a chance to take out over due wages
In useable products "


Destruction of store fronts after removal of content
Is a nice synthesis of primal drives

Seeing it as a rejection of the commercial society however is idiotic
It's a celebration of it
By other means

The negation of the negotiation

The quid spit in the face of the quo

The re appropriation of the ex appropriated

The celebration of consumer surplus by it's totalization

This is a worship of luxury products
Not food rioting
Which is hardly the carnival we see in London town these days

Grocery stores are for the bores of tot

I was always a hotspur fan btw


I agree with SOS
That ugsferd joint strikes me as short gunned and brittle of presentation
Like a catholic converts faith and sex drive


The father has really let the side down here even if payday runs thru gods green England and even if specifically the ox quads
At least don't flourish the fucker at us

Too bad the totenham revelers haven't marched on encrusted merit central
There blown it to sand and pebbles

Ring the fuck in bells ???
Are you daffy

Hand a few promising young dons from the bell ropes

And set the tower to topple mode with a few shrewdly placed plastic bombs


We need a 16 th century "reformation" with a pecker to it
Loot and blast to bits these fat cat pipe dream and brain death factories

Forget the destruction of symbols of petty commerce
GO for the centers of higher folly the luxury of a pet class of idlers and strivers
These over degreed mountebanks

The poor shop keepers at least face degrading means of attainment

These ilkensteins face only acclaim and nice shaded studies

Al Schumann:

I used to cry when I had no shoes, until I met a mob that had looted Foot Locker. They had the right size and everything! That's tasteful looting.


It's tea ball

It's amusing when long distance managerial godfathers of revolutions which never materialize preach to an empty stadium about what the kids should do with their time.


"So you have an entire so-called economy based on theft and expropriation; basically your life must be either precarious true poverty or the illusory security of some or other sort of debt-peonage, which is the foundational theft and expropriation upon which all the profits of finance rest; literally, like, uh, basically, um, half the world is enslaved to the immense extortionist enterprises of state capital--the other half is covered in a three-inch Congo-delta oil slick and is a skein of extraction points. And what really worries you is that some London homebro is stealing some trainers from the Foot Locker? Oh, you worry, how can these people ever expect social change and the advancement of their lot if they don't respect the law. Yo, mah nigs: how can they ever expect it if they do?"


nice to see consensus here
at least we all can agree on a nice fife finger discount shopping spree
even if some of us prefer the destruction
to the expropriation of the petty partners
of the master expropriators

reduction of exploitation to usury metaphors reminds me of this once leading
now vintage political economist
Gottfried Feder
with his sweeping condemnation
of the then existing economic order
magnum O :



a life long romance with the spontaneous

ground zero:

a skipped distinction
the asbstraction
free exchange
and the agit prop salivation primer
free markets

free exchange
not to be confused with
ft exchange
the exchange of mutually free
products or services


one of father S's fellow listers at dougwood gultch

" i find some of the intellectual content of the left communist milieu compelling..", ...
but in my experience of that milieu socially I find it less compelling."

" An older radical I met once said “all the Situationists I’ve ever known have been morose alcoholics.” "

" a lot of left communist ideas are worth taking seriously, but so is the fact that that milieu tends to be socially disfunctional, and the connection between the ideas and disfunctional character of the milieu is worth taking seriously as well."


i might add
in his twilight years
g feder was quite the habitat visionary


The 1977 blackout and riots were far better than the 2003 vintage, which was pure Bloombergian, yuppie, look-at-how-we-all-get-along. Missed opportunity for flat screens too.


Al, I just recently had a rather heated discussion with a woman, a liberal of course, about Greece, when she asked quite huffily of the rioting there: "What's the rationale? What's the alternative?"

God damn, am I ever late to this party -- beyond fashionably late... but, still...


Anybody here catch Obummer's speech the other day, right after the Substandard & Piss-Poor downgrade -- as I like to call it, The Thinly-Veiled Butthurt Speech -- which contained such classics as "we're still a AAA Nation" and what has to be the funniest thing I've heard in an Obummer speech so far, "Warren Buffett told me that if there were such a thing as a AAAA rating, he'd give it to the US"? I don't know about the rest of you folks, but I thought that was a real side-splitter, even funnier than when he told us that it was "time to eat our peas".

What's interesting, though, is that despite having a substantial retirement fund that likely lost a few grand in value over the past week, I'm still strangely gleeful at the S&P downgrade and the stock market's subsequently doing its imitation of the Challenger. Yeah, OK, my retirement fund was dinged a bit, but it seems somehow worth it just for the sight and sound of Obummer sucking his thumb on TV like that.

As for the British action...? Hell, I'm jealous -- insanely jealous. This morning, I had the pleasure of viewing video footage of a squad of riot cops in chaotic retreat, being chased down a street by a mob of pissed-off people, and reading headlines detailing how the cops had totally lost control, and how the uprising had spread to at least two other neighborhoods in London, and how a Sony warehouse had been burned to the ground... and given Sony's recent behavior towards online gamers and buyers of music CDs (remember the CD DRM rootkit scandal?), all I can say is that it couldn't have happened to a nicer greedy-assed, tyrannical corporation.

Boo yah!

Meanwhile, one indignity after another is heaped upon Black America, and all they seem to be able to do is sit on their asses and bitch while waiting for the Democratic Party and the CBC to save their asses. Hell, I'm still disgusted over the total lack of nationwide mass solidarity actions after the way black residents of New Orleans were treated after Hurricane Katrina. C'mon, y'all, it's Tahrir Time.


flug i think its OUR turn now

the african american nation
has carried
the riot struggle form load
for the rest of us
east of the mississippi too long ...way to long

since miami in '89 .....at least


background listing



"What's the rationale? What's the alternative?"

sez it all brother chom


OP, questions like those tell you everything you need to know about the liberal mind. Heard the same incessantly during the LA riots: "What do they think they're going to ACCOMPLISH??"

The tidy, orderly, controlling liberal mind at its tidiest, most orderly, most controlling.

Flug, OP is right. Can't just always be the brothers and sisters rising up, especially when they get marginalzed as, "Oh, it's just those crazy niggaz again..." They're well within their rights say, "Nah, nah...your turn, homes."


socialism or barbarism

what a completely assine slogan
especially when you come to find by barbarism must present day hot pinks mean
dark age

poor rosa has to take the rap for this ??

of course not


locus classicus and profound rejection of above S or B planetary road fork

"... we must not forget that
The devastating effects of Bourgeois industry and commerce are only the organic results of the whole system of production as it is now constituted.

Today social production rests on the supreme rule of capital.

The centralization of capital is essential to the existence of capital as an independent power.

The destructive influence of that centralization upon the markets of the world does but reveal, in the most gigantic dimensions, the inherent organic laws of political economy now at work in every civilized town.

The bourgeois period of history has to create the material basis of the new world — on the one hand universal intercourse founded upon the mutual dependency of mankind, and the means of that intercourse; on the other hand the development of the productive powers of man and the transformation of material production into a scientific domination of natural agencies.

Bourgeois industry and commerce create these material conditions of a new world in the same way as geological revolutions have created the surface of the earth.

When a great social revolution shall have mastered the results of the bourgeois epoch,
the market of the world and the modern powers of production,
and subjected them to the common control of the peoples of this world ,
then only will human progress cease to resemble that hideous, pagan idol, who would not drink the nectar but from the skulls of the slain."

no stupid we burger bits
are the barbarians ...now
we are right now the destroyers
of the planets civilizations

a dark age ahead ?? this IS the dark age
for whatever that p[hrase should mean

what balderdash

dark ages have no connection
to " cemetery earth "

in fact THE "dark age itself
is a beauitiful euro centric
piece of impudence


only one reference is needed
to blow the planetary dark age biz to blazes

check out the dates of the tang dynasty

And I thought the Tang Dynasty began with John Glenn.

Chomskyzinn sez on 08.09.11 at 14:38:
Can't just always be the brothers and sisters rising up, especially when they get marginalzed as, "Oh, it's just those crazy niggaz again..." They're well within their rights say, "Nah, nah...your turn, homes."

Oh, no; I wasn't just talking about the Africans, I was just using that as an example. You could well ask that question about the entirety of citizens and workers in this country. The Greeks, French, Italians and British are tearing up the streets over indignities similar to what are being inflicted on Americans, but what are the Americans doing?


When the shit hits the fan,
You'll be sittin' on the can
When the whip comes down!

--rolling stones.


I agree with OP about the so-called Dark Ages, which have gotten a very bad rap. Admittedly, Viking invasions were no picnic, but being invaded by the Roman empire was certainly no better, and almost certainly worse.

Of course I like the Middle Ages too, and so, although I cede the saliency of Owen's Jeremiad fully, there is a side of me that's in hog heaven in Oxford. Place is a little self-conscious, admittedly.

I have probably less information than anybody else here about the exciting events elsewhere in Albion -- haven't been following the news reports closely at all. TV is as useless and mendacious here as it is in the States, and overheard conversations equally censorious, wrong-headed, and petty-bourgeois.

What I'm doing here is too complicated to describe in detail, but it's connected with my fondness for Oily Music. I may however get a chance to play the organ at Evensong in Christ Church cathedral tomorrow, with luck.

It's kind of a crummy organ, though very grand-looking, a 1979 Rieger for those who follow these things. But it's a very nice little cathedral. Mostly mid-twelfth century, a very good period if you ask me, though there's a wonderful fan-vaulted Tudor ceiling in the choir, a real marvel. The old stuff has very unusual interior elevation, a weird combination of two-story and three-story, with the triforium arcade nestled inside nave arches extended up to the clerestory, with the consequent awkward split capitals at the springing of the aisle vaulting. Clearly some serious experimentation going on, quite wild and daring for a provincial town at the time.

Literally ran into the Archbishop of Canterbury in the cloister yesterday -- well, almost. A near collision. I was late for a rehearsal. For a former Whiskypalian choirboy, this was a piquant moment.

His Nibs is not here for the same reason I am; apparently there's a patristics conference going on simultaneously, and his grace of Canterbury is an alum, Welshman though he be.

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming, unless I've made Owen's head explode with this shameless wallow in decadent aestheticism on my part.

"Oily Music", huh? Y'mean, like Rockabilly? Or, is that "greasy music" I'm thinking of?

Please do go on about the architecture. Even though my area of concentration was graphic design/illustration, I loved my History Of Art And Architecture classes, and Medieval and Gothic were among my favorite periods -- along with Bauhaus, oddly enough.

About ten years ago, the DW and I spent a week in Paris, and a week was just barely enough to visit my heroes in the Louvre and Musee d'Orsay, and to spend an afternoon sketching and photographing the Notre Dame Cathedral. As thankful as I was to have that week in Paris, I found myself wishing for one more week so I could arrange a side trip to Lyon so I could photograph and sketch the cathedral there.


Bell ringing hypothesis is daffy, huh?

"triforium arcade nestled inside nave arches extended up to the clerestory,.... " etc.

Smith must leave a trail of mustiness everywhere he walks!

Peter Ward:
TV is as useless and mendacious here as it is in the States...

I grew to hate the beeb pretty quickly living in Écosse. But I'm not sure I saw any atrocity from them at the time that took the piss quite as much as some things they've delivered lately. In this case they literally tell the old activist to shut the fuck up and wait for the findings of the police self-investigation. Police self-investigation is of course hysterical on its own, but add to it the Met's blatant attempt to fabricate evince for real comedic result--wow!


@Peter Ward

if the "In this case" is a link, it doesn't work.


Has Lord Cameron been dragged out of 10 Downing and set on fire yet? If not, then everything else is bullshit. The working class turns its rage on itself as always, and the people turn to the strongmen for rescue. An ancient formula.

LA Riots? Name a member of the ruling elite who was injured, killed or even mildly inconvenienced by them. It's the little people who suffer in these outbursts of collective rage, never the predators at the top of the food chain.

I'm willing to bet my family, alone, has endured more misdirected violence during my lifetime at the hands of angry minorities than the entire ruling class in America has during the same time. I have the scars to prove it. The head of Goldman Sachs doesn't.


"I was just using that as an example"
great flug i figured as much
if so
then use another example

on another point

and what oughta explode
my head or " a very nice little cathedral. Mostly mid-twelfth century... there's a wonderful fan-vaulted Tudor ceiling in the choir..."

father spins into a rapsody :

" The old stuff has very unusual interior elevation, a weird combination of two-story and three-story, with the triforium arcade nestled inside nave arches extended up to the clerestory, with the consequent awkward split capitals at the springing of the aisle vaulting."
sum up
"Clearly some serious experimentation going on, quite wild and daring for a provincial town at the time."

very nice.... very daring is it eh ??

then all the more perfect to blow to pieces

imagine the indignation
the fury
the travesty

blow up some gothic revival RC pile
here in amurica
and what have you done ??

improved the average pedigree
of the planets "active " opium dens

but destroy this little gem right there in ugston....

comrades preserve nothing
at least nothing actually worth preserving

beauty is the final set of chains
a cultivated mind
is only fit for endless
third degrees


Bell ringing hypothesis is daffy, huh?

you mistook me my friend

an easy mistake
to assume i the loyal friend
saw father as an incendiary
not a dazzled bended knee supplicant

itching to ham away at the key board

no doubt he'll choose some
baroque bit of tail chasing intricacy

if the fingers will permit



your lecture fails to capture the deeper why

such negation is indeed a brief flame

but it burns off the sordid parts of a soul
like its an eternal liberation

t'is a cleansing of sorts
and glorious
even to simply hear about it


"Smith must leave a trail of mustiness everywhere he walks!"
you've never seen him challenge a police horse obviously

many side he be


"I'm willing to bet my family, alone, has endured more misdirected violence during my lifetime at the hands of angry minorities than the entire ruling class in America has during the same time"

you ought not look at this in isolation
there is a chain of these things
riots rise link by link to revolutions on occasion

then perhaps a few elite heads may roll ..no ??

Is there something inherently crummy about that particular Rieger?


from wiki article:
"Rieger has a long-standing interest in social justice, having been one of the first employers to give their employees health insurance and electric lighting in their accommodation in the opening years of the twentieth century. Manufacture of action parts for their organs is now undertaken mainly by handicapped people." {IOW liberals.}

"In their organ design and manufacture, they do not aim to copy any specific style, but rather create a new tradition which allows the interpretation of the full range of organ repertoire. Study of organs of all periods informs this design philosophy, with the result that the resulting sound is not 'authentic', but rather serves the music effectively. They write: 'In any case it is our goal to build instruments not as much for the past, as certainly for the present and the future.' "

{Think about "not authentic" and recall that MJS owns and operates a clavichord.}


and glorious
even to simply hear about it

I guarantee it isn't glorious to the people getting their heads cracked open or their property destroyed.

riots rise link by link to revolutions on occasion

then perhaps a few elite heads may roll ..no ??

No. Hasn't happened yet. Down on the bottom of society it is the war of all against all as ever. A wonderfully capitalist, laissez-faire free-for-all where you can swing your bat at the nearest available head, then go score a pair of free sneakers. Up at the top of the food chain it's a socialist paradise with cradle to grave coverage, job security, and the comfort of knowing that your social inferiors are always too busy clobbering each other to ever knock you off your perch.

This sort of thing leads to nothing but greater ethnic animosity and interclass strife. The mass media instigated the LA Riots for a reason, and the Paris riots were Sarkozy's ticket to the top. "Chavs" and "niggers" vs pensioners is a great selling point for the police state, and will be exploited for all it's worth.

This lady seems to get the idea much of the Left seems to be missing:


"If we're fighting for a cause then let's fight for a fucking cause."



for sean from the moor :

"The latest Fenian exploit in Clerkenwell is a great folly. The London masses, which have shown much sympathy for Ireland, will be enraged by it, and driven into the arms of the government party. One cannot expect the London proletarians to let themselves be blown up for the sake of Fenian emissaries. Secret, melodramatic conspiracies of this kind are, in general, more or less doomed to failure"

in this context
not sensible to conflate
the haphazards of riot
with the unintended mishaps
in the execution of long premeditated
plans of political terror


a poll once again shows the contradictions of the collective mind

"We also asked what the public think the Government should do to stimulate the economy: cutting spending (49%) and taxing the wealthy(46%) came highest"

of course one shakes the head at this
"extreme collective incoherence"
but its apparently "biz as usual"
for the citizenry to hold both ends
of an opposition with near equal deareness

its as if the unintented outcome is
the reliable social construction
of a set of massively held
coexistent political antinomies

the collective mind hive
not only creates
its own turbulence
around a weakly chaotic path of majoritarian "preference"
but it largely remains within bounds
within a reasonably balance
even as it transports these utterly conflicted preferences
moment by monent
ever reproducing new compounds
of its composite "self"

Clio's apparent one damn set of events after another always perceived as known
enough to act upon

ahh the willful cross purposed ignorance
that sustains the social rock of ages
the STATE !!

faith and counter faith
poised in struggle
neither able to apply the knock out blow


The latest Fenian exploit in Clerkenwell is a great folly.

As true today as it was back then. Right cause, wrong tactics, wrong target. Attacking the working class in London or Londonderry was guaranteed to alienate the people and give the ruling elite the excuse they needed to implement the police state. Same shit, different tune.

The mythology of the IRA is such that it is hard to find a Brit who doesn't claim to know someone killed or injured by an IRA bomb or who just missed his appointment with death by the IRA by a few blocks or a few seconds. You can't debate NI with any Brit without hearing these claims. The British government was able to play up a handful of IRA bombings into a modern version of the Nazi Blitz, which aside from rightfully pissing off a lot of Brits and Irish and sabotaging the nationalist cause was about all it accomplished.


Doesn't that reading of the IRA effect start a bit late. There is an Irish Republic after all .

Sean, are you Bono? I think you might be Bono.

Whoever you are, you are certainly a major nut.

You obviously have no idea where social change comes from.

BTW, what nationalist cause, and why do you believe in anybody's nationalist cause? Are you a nationalist?

"The mythology of the IRA is such that it is hard to find a Brit who doesn't claim to know someone killed or injured by an IRA bomb or who just missed his appointment with death by the IRA by a few blocks or a few seconds."

Guess what? The same is true of Southern white "Americans."

Guess what else? Southern white "Americans" had it all and more coming to them. Just like the Brit occupiers of Ireland.

Jeezus. Where do we find these liberals?


Following el senor presidente's speech, the USA Dry Pea & Lentil Council messaged him to - give peas a chance. Seriously better and better - but not so good as freshly picked uncooked WI peas.


poll result

"Roughly four in 10 have no confidence at all in the federal government when it comes to dealing with the economy, the poll indicates.

The number of people who expressed no confidence at all nearly doubled since October 2010. "

"pollarizing " away from the vital two party center at both ends


times like
post mexican war america ???


a little less zeal here

sean is NOT karl after all

and frankly we need to consider the uses and abuses of terror carefully

the ira might well consider the londoners
as well as londonderryers
reactions to their actions
as indeed history suggests they did

nb the splits
my point was to suggest a riot's collateral damage (CD) to "innocents"
is quite a different consideration
then the CD done by terror outfits


i held off on badger news
hoping some one else would dive in first
but i guess this sites comment cage denizens
have higher aim

that union/pwog org and money
in a full smack down contest
with big corporate/plutonic org and money
knocked out to state senators
gets called a defeat in the MSM
because they didn't knock out three
and change the party control
of the state senate
strikes me as worth a notice

state level action out there bores mjs
because he's a metrosexual hill billy cultural parvenue

but the rest of you

riots over ballots

how hot pink can you get


you perplex me


"There is an Irish Republic after all "

a brutal pair of fragments
is what we got

typical work of a departing bully nation
like the fuckin brits
imagine if my heros in the ppk
settled for the iraqi yankee sponsored fragment
now autonomous
as kurdistan

national liberation involves seperations amalgamation

the globe infested projects
of national self determination
will never cease
class struggle exists within nations
oppression between nations eh ??
settle accounts with the national oppressors first and foremost
Clio will allow each nationality
plenty of time
for the direct intra national class struggle

all in good time comrade dawson

now combined struggles are prefered
one looks at vietnam as prefered to algeria as prefered to kurdistan or
the south of ireland
but all are NL struggles

as much so as darfur or tibet and other
imperially manipulated national struggles

there are no en soi
reactionary national liberation struggles

however concrete power struggles come in nasty composite form
and sometimes the existing national solution is not a lasting national compound

class fisions abound and latent comprador elements lurk everywhere in every class


what interests me specifically today as always
is the white yankee nation and white yankee wage class

where once say in
the blue meany/george wallace era
the bribed strata in the leninist sense
was hegemonic
now the old pie card compradors are disorganized though not utterly non functional
vide solidarity center or what ever that
sub protean farce of a cia front is called these days
that conjury of the renegade lovestone
that ..

but i digress from a digression

at any rate
i can not claim to be the militant anti nationalist my mate and mentor
father smiff of flea flicker hill
would want all of us to be
as we sail in a light boat thru dark and restles waves of ill promise and progress


the party of the people of no individual consequence
the party of the humanely altruistic celebrated

to see only the poor the victims the naturally maimed
ie the great unlifted
out there among the people
as their natural constiuency
is typical liberal class poison

the anti kulack pwogs
--irony alert--
are only the agnostic cousins
of the liberal elitests
wallace and fdr have their glowing moments of course
but give me huey long uncrowned king of the kulacks first
as catalytic agency

yes national socialism has a left wing and in a different society
and in a different time
that is where you'd find huey
right there with herr feder
and gregor strasser
and no doubt
certain darker nihilists
that today might look to us
just like our dear karl

but huey lived in a different context
that provided him a different ultimately progressive role

there are no absolute blacks or whites
in the correct context here and nows white becomes there and whens black

consult your copy
of the science of logic
for additional information and insight


same poll

" 77 percent of Americans agree with this statement: “Whatever its faults, the United States still has the best system of government in the world.” That number was unmoved from October 2010. "

that is nationalism for ya
and no wonder it frustrates mr dawson

for an essentially "liberated "**** nation
likethe white yankee nation
what a bulwark of political inertia

**** liberated in the
bourgeois sense

-- and yet the MNC supra national game plans
can lead to a new sense of nastional oppression among the white yankees
hence the suddenly intensified idetification
with the pre hig 60's dixie white nation
of dick russell and harry byrd



that by rough parallel
apropos white yankee nationalism


"then perhaps a few elite heads may roll ..no ??"

No. Not even close.

Not being a scold here, nor telling the "chavs" how to "behave," but Sean has the politics and the culture right on this one. The effect of these riots will be to further marginalize the rioters and their class, open the door to greater police crackdowns and surveillance, drive an already widening wedge between the "underclass" and the "working class," and so forth. Let's not kid ourselves. We know exactly where this goes.

I bet this pretty well expressed consensus Londoner sentiment:

(P.S. The recently released book "Chavs" is pretty good, at least the first 1/3 or so that I've read.)


The belief that people are collectively responsible and deserve to be punished with death and destruction for the actions of their governments or societies is the mark of an ignorant fascist barbarian. You think calling me a liberal insults me but I have 100 times more respect for the average well-meaning liberal than I do for nasty, human-hating authoritarians like you. Save your liberal-bashing for someone who gives a fuck.

In your rancid misanthropy, you think the working class turning violence against itself is the way forward to social change. Balkanization has been such an effective strategy in Northern Ireland, Lebanon and Iraq. Let's have more of it here. Let's promote it in London.

As always, you display a remarkable ignorance of the topics you spout off about, but this never stops you from launching into one of your trademark frothing at the mouth ad hom attacks. You obviously don't have a clue what the terms "nationalist" and "loyalist" mean in the context of Northern Ireland, but even lacking this basic knowledge you feel comfortable expressing your prodigious ignorance of the conflict over there, and your desire to kill the Brits.

Nationalism is a dangerous but necessary tool to organize and unify people who are resisting foreign domination, like the Irish or the Palestinians. I don't think anybody could argue that it wouldn't be a major improvement over the sectarianism that divides Lebanon and Iraq. Once liberation is achieved it should be discarded for the curse it is. That's why there's no place for your Brit-hatred among most Irish nationalists. They understand that.


"...did a bit of canvassing to get out the vote on election day, and I met some more green party types who said they just don't care to vote, they don't like Dems. I really don't think anything would have got them to vote"

not even throw out the bums
can move
real people of principle


"Since bicyclists are so vulnerable in traffic, it's always been a mystery to me why so many of them flout traffic laws. What I *really* hate is people who ride their bikes on the sidewalk, truly endangering anyone who can't get out of their way fast enough, like kids and old people; besides, as a ped, why should I have to scurry out of the way of some idiot on a bike? By law, bike riders are supposed to stick to the roads. I don't want to be insensitive to the perils of bike riding in traffic; like I said, cyclists are extremely vulnerable and more than a few motorists are as idiotic regarding bikers as some bikers are about peds. I recognize the good things about cycling, and there are many. But ignoring traffic laws is *not* the way to go, it only makes matters worse."

where's father two wheeler ??


hot from the nerf stalinist E - rag:

"The Israeli Knesset (Parliament) is convening a special session to figure out how to respond as unprecedented protests sweep the country against budget cuts, the skyrocketing cost of housing and other basics, and growing inequality."

first composite question
arabs or jews or both ???

red nerf times:

"It followed three weeks of steadily mounting protests, involving workers, retirees, students and professionals from across Israeli's political spectrum, including Jews, Arabs and others. Tent cities have been set up in the heart of Tel Aviv and elsewhere in Israel, echoing the "Arab Spring" movement in Egypt"

mini me's internal contradictions



"nor telling the "chavs" how to "behave""
but surely you are aren't you ??
if not
then what

to me riots are spontaneous explosions

the pile on of oportunitistic elements
hardly changes that
if this widens the wedge so be it

the repeated expression
of collective rage
in the face of state repression
trumps the fall out among the neighbors

this as i've suggested hardly covers
pre meditated terror
the use of that must be weighed carefully


"the working class turning violence against itself is the way forward to social change"


but then looting isn't entirely self destructive

" Balkanization has been such an effective strategy in Northern Ireland, Lebanon and Iraq"
that suggests a poor grasp of history in each case
three strikes sean


sean keep your shirt on
your among friends ....mostly

i think you have deeeply felt views here
about terror violence and nationalism

but you might present your convictions
on all this

un mixed with the temper md seems to produce in you no ??
i'll wager a big hunk of your last post finds
lots of folks here that would agree


sean and chom

both of you seem unwilling to accept the great chain of struggle
fair enough

its only a hypothesis

let me ask both of you this

what do you think about
the long hot summers of the 60's ???
the urban black rioting etc

the black nation saw most
of the destruction in its own neighborhoods
no ???

what actually did
the johnson/nixon administrations
responded to back then

simply scenes of police brutality
as white cops wacked and hosed peaceful
southern civil rights demonstrators ???

klan burnings of churches and dark of night killings ??

or perhaps also
as lbj called em
those hard peckered black boys
burning their hoods down

I take back the vitriol. It is a complex question.

But I'm not in favor of killing Brits, or anybody else.

But neither does history respond to precise stops and starts and launches and drops of items like nationalism.

As for whether or not the riots will wind up being for the better or the worse, who dares certain knowledge of something like that? What if policing gets doubled and the youth respond by becoming smarter and more political?

Meanwhile, the PM has nothing but more abuse to heap on the rioters. Not a speck of acknowledgement of the rioters' point.

I know which team I'm rooting for here.


"The belief that people are collectively responsible and deserve to be punished with death and destruction for the actions of their governments or societies is the mark of an ignorant fascist barbarian"

where as most times
one sees a string of ises hooked
without notice
to oughts and ought nots
here i suggest you try noticing
the ises you replace with
your implicit string of oughts and ought nots


I'm not trying to stand in the way of history or do anything to break the great chain of struggle. But I just don't see a Johnson/Nixon response growing out of this. The "chavs" --- a predictable outgrowth of hideous social policy, to be sure --- were already loathed before these riots. The fact that people see this as mindless looting and hooliganism, with no "purpose," will only harden those attitudes.

The 60s blacks...there were centuries of injustice there. Maybe even the most hardened racist knew, in his dark (or white) heart that we done the blacks wrong.

There's injustice here too. Massive injustice. But I think, given prevailing attiutudes toward the "chavs," and the prevailing ethos of austerity, the response to this will be fascistic, cheered as such by the public...and the farthest thing from Red.

Just has a different feel to me than the 60s blacks. Has a different feel from the few-weeks-ago Greeks.

However...I hope that you're right, op, and I'm wrong. Yours is obviously the preferred outcome. And as I commented earlier, imposing "reason" or "rationales" on rioting is folly. I am simply predicting where I think this *particular* chain of events will lead, with every hope that I have got it wrong.

For what it's worth, I think the biggest segment of the Tory-Lib bloc is the one being ignored here:

The small-holders and shop keeps.

It wouldn't matter, as I wrote elsewhere, if the protestors (poor whites, poor blacks, poor south asians, or poor west indians) all locked up in arms, lit candles and ghandied their way through the streets of Tottenham and East London, nary an episode of violence to be reported or seen.

The small holder would still demand the breaking out of water cannons and the riot cops, because he knows in his shitty little heart that any gains made by the poor, even only in recognition, will come at a cost to him, materially and symbolically.

He probably doesn't have a good theory for explaining the way he's been divided from the jobbers who exist right alongside his corporate dependent fief, but he knows the truth "instinctively" and his reactions prove it.

Anyway, what I wrote elsewhere:

"The small-holder (who usually only holds his tiny fief by virtue of service to the larger corporate concerns, and in peonage to them) is dangerous because he or she is usually at the forefront, and acting as accidental cover for, the demands which best suit the class which actually owns the means of production.

If the smallholder is agitating for law and order, especially, you can anticipate only condemnation from him, and punishment from the cops who protect his law-coddled property, no matter how you approach the redress of grievances.

If every single one of the 'ferals' were out in the street, waving placards and politely whispering for humble considerations, all through restrained and saintly grimaces, the smallholder would still want the water cannons deployed, because he knows, as a matter of record, that his abundant government protections will be sold up symbolically, in order to 'appease' the brown skinned ingrates."


I would draw your attention back to my original point of my family having endured more ethnic violence than the whole of the American ruling class during my lifetime. I wish someone would prove me wrong here, or dispute this point. I think my version of history is a bit more intimate than many, having actually been victimized by racist violence and harassment more times than I can count. I know first hand exactly how people react to this sort of thing, and I know that reaction is perfectly natural, if morally flawed.

I've yet to see any of these eruptions of ethnic violence lead to anything but more animosity towards minorities. If you talk to black people from the same environment I came from, you'd find few willing to glorify the street thugs who prey on them and their families as revolutionaries. If anything, these guys are just the lower class version of the upper class: one more group of predators to feast on them.

The Left comes off as completely delusional when it praises every act of street violence by minorities as some kind of revolutionary act. There is revolution, and there is simple street thuggery, and most people on the street who have to live with the latter know the difference.

I think the people getting beaten, robbed and terrorized right now have more reason to be angry than anyone. You ask me whose side I'm on? I am on their side.


It's interesting to note op, flawed sense of history that I have, that the same unit of the British SAS that was implicated in the Omagh bombing in Northern Ireland, was also caught dressed as Arabs in Basra with a carload of explosives around the time of all the mosque bombings in Iraq which ignited the civil war between the Sunnis and Shia.

If the IRA did not exist, it would have been necessary to invent them, and invent them they did. The British have a long history of using agents provocateurs like the Littleohn Brothers to set off bombs or give the IRA assistance in making and planting them. Did they do this because the IRA threatened their interests, or the reverse?

They appear to have repeated the same pattern of false flag violence that worked so well for them in Northern Ireland. After that, the cycle of violence took on a life of its own.


Riots amount to multiple acts of minor terrorism, but it has the same effect in the end as the more professional variety--it divides the people against themselves. This kind of mass stupidity serves no one but the M'lords. Class solidarity is a two way street. If Chavs want respect they need to show it to their neighbors.


I think giving the "chavs" symbol any credence is a colossal error. It's a class slur, foremost.


I wonder what the UK looters think of the UK's leadership rôle in the NATO attack on Libya. There, rioters against a rather paternalistic government were almost instantly given air support and weapons.

Governments teach by example.


I agree With your class perspective

The small holder or kulack can certainly swing "fascist"
As can the wage class
And more readily then the wage earner
A job holder has as much to lose but usually the job holder losing his job at least considers his boss is to blame

The fee simple stake holder often blames his fate on usury and various remote hi fi conspiracies

The spontaneous home of right libertarian guff
Is the kulack shop keeper
Semi professional fantasts
The likely swing in england's case seems 60/30
And 30/60
For now at least

The 60 among the wage class an unstable mix of ethnic groupings
Plus a slice of the white Brit wagelings

Waveling fiefettes the 60 will be the Brit t baggers

The spontaneous inclination of the white wagery is I think
To support actions that stay put and don't venture into their neighborhood

Rampaging ethnics down town has both an up and down side

Sean you really might consider a few distinctions here

Between a riot with burning and looting versus the every day thug menace versus the terrorist bomb threaters

If the Tory gub slams a lid on this the inner class interethnic wedge won't sink in deeper
If the tory's under liberal influence direct benefits to the naughty ethnic
The white bulk will react like the white bulk reacted here in the 70's
Badly !!!

As to hooligan youths
I think the age earning class hardly gets into fits over white boys
Anymore then they do any other time white street boys rise up like prairie dogs to assert a certain conditional momentary
Negative liberty


Sean I agree with your view of terrorists and the provocateur is vintage technique of state manipulation

And indeed the state often tries to convert peaceful demos into trash runs
But a rampage and looting like Seattle suggests this is not always a knock down to progressive actions

Lots of complexity here
But I was never mugged

I think Seattle stands out, at least in part, because the cops were already dealing with yutes who were highly politicized, and who had calculated as a part of their organization that the cops would try to provoke with des agents.

I also think the corporate press botched, from their perspective, its opening coverage of Seattle because it was expecting labor protestors, so it couldn't settle on a narrative and the copycats as quickly.

Lessons learned, by the baton wielders and camera operators, all around. The aggressive coverage of the British, Greek, Italian, Spanish and French flare ups, of late, has been openly an attempt to wedge race, or lawlessness, as a distraction from class.


In short, our entire public sphere is entangled with and embedded in networks of concentrated class power. The net effect of this is that certain ideas and perspectives threatening to these same interests tend to be marginalised or obscured and that certain salient facts are prevented from impacting on official public discourse. Perhaps the most immediate example of this is that the very reality of this power is itself obscured. This is no marginal point. As Hywel Williams observed in his much overlooked book Britain’s Power Elites, ‘[the] hidden nature of intellectual power is one aspect of the more generally concealed nature of the British power elites. … The moment they are revealed for the elites they truly are their power will be taken away from them.’ [4] As Dan Hind has observed in the case of the media, we are left with an impoverished public sphere incapable of understanding, let alone addressing, some of the most crucial political issues of our time.

The inability of our public institutions to develop an adequate understanding of social and economic problems can create considerable public confusion; but it can also encourage the growth of reactionary, and often racist, ideas. In the absence of crucial insights and understandings which might threaten elite power, other rationales are required to explain personal troubles and social problems that cause us anxiety. Without self-organising and developing independent forms of public knowledge and understanding, people remain as vulnerable to what we might call ‘the reactionary imagination’ as they are inclined towards more rational and humane perspectives.

Indeed the crafting of the reactionary imagination is precisely the institutional role of the ideologues of the populist right."

Shorter version, different angle[s] - Fascism is build through a combining of big business, a popular leader and a failing middle class. Business requires social support which is provided by that segment of the middle class [and portions of working class and lumpen]. The popular leader is the necessary mediation between the forementioned.

Fascism may better be understood as a far right form of corporatism, a system of vertically organized, functionally similar, groups which the state attempts to balance against one another in the interest of both big capital and the state; a pretense of unity.



Fascism as a qualitative phase change in corporate society
Has only one lesson for the vanguard agents of the wage class
Operating in a liberal system like we have here

When do you switch strategy
from attacking the social democratic formations and the labor aristocrats
to defending the liberal institutions

The nerf stalinists are now in permanent alliance with liberal elements
To isolate the reaction right wing here in the hegemonic metropole
That strikes me as idiotic
Too much focus on the fascist menace leads in this direction I think

Too much
Well we are living under de facto fascism already is of course the equally if less harmful opposite book end position
Often flirted with here

I think too much humanistically goo goo panic
about fascism => genocide concentration camps
1984 culture etc etc
Bespeaks a poorly digested liberal back ground

There is something to be said for the old German com party
Scoffing at the fascists
After all fascism in the long record of history turns out in it's sharpest moments
To end up
9 parts Pinochet
To every part Heinrich Himmler



are u using 'corporate society' to mean corporatism/corporatist?

which itself is a qualitative change and can be of varying political attitude but in any case is an attempt towards class collaboration.

New Deal corporatism
Nazi corporatism
Estado Novo corporatism
Etc, et cetera all at the
same time on the same planet

"Operating in a liberal system like we have here..." a neo-liberal system

There is something to be said for the old German com party
Scoffing at the fascists"

yeah, they followed comintern line.

think ee have some differences here, possibly due in part to dif understanding of corporatism.


You think calling me a liberal insults me but I have 100 times more respect for the average well-meaning liberal than I do for nasty, human-hating authoritarians like you.

Looks like someone has Dawson down cold.

OOPS. I forgot. He's a real authentic social critic, that pseudo-perrineau! He has a website, and everything! He's even named after a character on one of the all-time greatest popularity contests since the King & Queen of the High School Prom -- LOST.

3 cheers for braindead Dawson, running around me-too'ing Ouchy Pain's self-satisfied solipsism.



Corporatist state model or muddle has within in it a spectrum
That goes from a variant of social democracy to full blown fascism

Above I was only talking about the state floating over any corporate dominated


Not the re distribution of wealth
The free distribution of wealth

No ???


Alex of pinkerhurst abbey

has a good
if fragmentary
run by
on the riot question
over at counter top


". I don't trust anyone all that well, and as ready as I am to identify that I live in NH, was once a bit of a tough and spent a number of years doing awful things to stay alive, worked for Republicans as a sniffer, and then later crawled up and out high enough to manage several large money making concerns before I regrew a conscience that fit at the back of my head like an orange sized tumor, I'm not all that identifiable....."

"I was long a criminal. It's rewarding, in so much as disobedience is its own end. It's also the sort of life which selects for the worst, and the hardest. I have kicked a man's nose almost completely off his face because, in the end, he had the audacity to sneer at the obvious poverty of my friends and I. We nearly killed that man, because we lived lives which demanded a terrible hardness."

by one of our pen pals

a granite state
hunter's stew
heavy on the carrots light on the venison

Carrots don't have the worms you'll often find in venison.


or try black beans - and nothing else other than a random chili - every single day for a year

no matter how wormy the meat it would still have been at least moreless meat.

god thix might become a cookbook.


"to be fair, an Obama second term would be a lot less hard on working Americans than, say, the Texasification of America that would take place under Rick Perry"

"a lot less ..."??

this point pivots on what ??

perhaps the election of rick perry next year would indicate
the upper 65 percent of the population
had decided to side
with the 1 percent at the top
and let the 35 percent at the bottom
eat shit

and if that is where the electorate is at
or will be at by fall '12
why and how would any donor class fraction
beau clinton- barry o'bummer type
triangulating relevant ??

the contrist dems are a necessary evil
of take back politics
only if
the helot majority either opposes take back
or is in a muddle over it

if the upper 2/3 's are kool with
a serious fling at transfer system "pruning"
and able to sleep thru quarter after quareter of chronic high unemployment
"it ain't my problem "

the whole dembo pwog gig
is contingent on an argument
that is either irrelevent
or ....irrelevent


The middle class is never cool with Medicare or Soc Sec pruning. That's why, after all of the theatrics about cutting govt, pols always leave these programs intact. You could have Prez Rev Perry at 1600, Cantor running the House, Aunt Mitch run if the Senate...for as far as the eye can see...and the middle and upper middle and tea-bag bribes will keep coming. Bribes, or the capitalist's downpayment on social stability and a well-oiled machine.

The middles and upper-middles will fuck the poor, but not themselves.


" pols always leave these programs intact"

yes if the point is cuts TODAY or even in two years to citizen entitlements
or upping qualifications
or making "feelable " changes in indexation formulae

but .....but ....
if some ten year off
tinker is in order
you need a centrist congressional Democrat
goon squad
"a moynihan " gang
to lead the spear charge past the pwog/union
professional poverty pimps
and pro job slob cry babies

and most often in addition

its prefered practice
to have a sitting dem POTUS
that will let it slide past a veto

not always of course
one thinks of the classic rip off
the greenspan moynihan SSI fiddle
in the reagan salad days
but these bi partisan committees
are pure center aisle theatre
a POTUS up for re election is unlikely
to oppose this sort of "general interest "
corporate will
barbering operation

look at madison this past winter
that is the hullabaloo
ram rod republicanism faces
without a few centrist democrats

-- no not just joementum liebermupet ---

at the head table
along side the GOPer gulpers

imagine the work of barbering
is incomplete by election day eve

as the 'debt ceiling of death '
11th hour escape compromise
the barber job "must" go beyond the election
--recall implementation of any more cuts are delayed till january '13
ie the next congress can toss em
all in the circular file ---

barry has tried to "insure" his necessity
post november '12
to the donor class majority
by that "clause" /loop hole

imagine the wild eyed crazed minority mobilized to" stop the people killing cuts"
if perry gets elected

add in a 59 seats or less republican senate and
a gop house .....
the all too few
spartan Dembot senators of "conscience"
could still stage
a wisconsin like blockage at the procedural narrows

while big-midget pub/pri org labor
and its buddy pwog pond central
rally the millions to surround The Hill
in negrian indignation

yes the multitude awakens !!!!

from wall street
the view would look decidely better
with a make it go down easier
jfk deep tan quisling
re elected to the WH

then say this witching hour
mayhem in a bath tub you'd trigger
by buying election for
a texas ranger
"pacos " rick perry type

behold our
"night of the long knives "
ten gallon president elect
wild pronk rider
and now soon to be
US marshall in chief ....

yes wall street could enjoy a mitt romney white house almost as much as barry II

but do you get him the nomination
how do you get him past
the republican popular bases
imagine the damage you'd do to the republican party in the long run
if yopu arrange ala ike
the nominate of such a corporate
wet paper bag ??

they did in the case of george bush the elder
of course
but those were better days
both for the GOPer base elements
and wall street
coming directly on the heels of his Ronmost
and indeed
so shortly after the reaganian
" it's morning on wall street "


Yes, I have not the slightest doubt at all that Wall St and Big Money prefer Nobama to anyone --- probably even including Mittens --- on the GOP side.

The perfect Wall St/Big $$$ scenario exists right now. The Baggers make populist noise every time someone utters the word taxation or regulation. Fine, that flank is covered. But they are not allowed in the boardroom...not allowed to actually make decisions.

Obama + corporate Dems and Repubs + "populist" Bagger noise is the perfect formula. Might even, as you suggest OP, sneak in some long term cuts to bene's too.

There are places one can wager on the "elections," correct? It seems to me that this is one of the safest bets in history:

Obama is already re-elected. Examine the money flows. Ponder the conversion of today's extremely effective confusion into the possibly well-targeted demands that would no doubt occur with Perry at the helm.

This baby is over. Obama is as skilled a social climber as there is, and he has this all nailed down. Has from Day One.


"Obama is already re-elected. Examine the money flows. Ponder the conversion of today's extremely effective confusion into the possibly well-targeted demands that would no doubt occur with Perry at the helm."

Precisely. I suggest stepping up to the betting window right away, while some poor chumps still think he's beatable.

Not among those chumps: Big $$$, which is already flowing to Nobama, as MD notes, or simply staying on the sidelines until needed.

Perry has a legitimate shot, because it's not all orchestrated. The Republicans have primary and caucus contests which are not foreordained.

But, JC, you really think the dollars-that-be will dare pair their present situation with a blatant rightist? No way. They know better, thanks in no small part to Zero. This next election will be a mini-landside.

Damn, man. 104 comments. Jeez.

Just to keep things from bogging down too much, how about a break for some cheap laffs? Here's a tweet from Michael Moore that I found over at Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy. Talk about some serious thumb-sucking; this is just plain pathetic, man...



disappointment is such a versatile emotion. they forgot my coffee cream, the kid flunked gym, someone is killing thousands of strangers in my name.

really covers all the bases.


Ain't it a waste of attention or something to discuss Obama's chances in '12. SMBIVA doesn't even play in that arena, on principle. If one ain't participating why "cathect", as MJS might say. A waste of emotion.

I'm not suggesting that Obama will definitely lose. I just don't think that national elections are foregone conclusions. They cannot be orchestrated with perfection. Perry can certainly take the Republican nomination. If, come summer of 2012, Obama-as-Obama is more of a liability than not, or if the "national mood" is bitter, Perry can win a large enough share of the electoral college pot to be sworn in, come January 2013.

Plus, there's this mischief:



"Ain't it a waste of attention or something to discuss Obama's chances in '12'"
if the evolving line here at SMBIVA
is now

ignore electoral movements

then yes

if not

then maybe no

for example
many decent pwogs will agonize over

a challenger ala emk v carter in 80

an extra party challenge like nader in 96

others will wrestle with the political antinomy
lesser evilism and maybe try without success to inocculate themselves against the Dembot cut outs among us
crying cowpock at the gate
yahoo nation here we go

saying barry is a lock might shut down these time and energy wasting side shows

and there are folkls or at least at the inception of this site there WERE folks able to consider a rectified Dembo party
for them
what is to be done here and now ??

party barbering ??

in the past this site has seen posts
both extremes
attack the blue dogs
and attack
the pwogie frogs
one attack
the one aimed at knock off blue dogs looks to sculpt
a new progressive Dembot outfit
that at some climactic point
throws out the corporates
like the party once threw out its segregationists
and hurled righteous abuse at its banker friends

a purge

the other attack aimed at the pwogs like frankenhen and chuckie rangle
are looking to force room for a party to the left of the dembos

recall the thesis
the two big parties are seldf desined to guard the flanks of the corporate "vicious center "

the right flank of the gop and the left flank of the dembos are crucial "party cultivations"

the rick perry movement
like the goldwater movement
aimed at consolidating the right flank
i note this can be accomplished without
a winner

i'd goes so far as to say
the McGovern candidacy inadvertantly played such a role for the dembos
in the bitterly poisonous atmosphere on the early to mid 70's
along with the symbolic head chopping of tricky milhouse of course

i babble
the points are all obvious enough
but i was inspired by this concatenation
of profundities i guess:

"I'm not suggesting that Obama will definitely lose."
" I just don't think that national elections are foregone conclusions."

" They cannot be orchestrated with perfection. "



i can't share your joy in the
lumpy fumblings
of the pilsbury dough boy of the pwog pond

the duke of paste
mike moore

he seems on the whole worthy of a free and unencumbered hall pass

pissing on him as he gropes by your door strikes me as the act of an ingrate

the guys had his innings
like jesse jackson
dennis koospinach
no he's not karl's hero noam C

but should he be ???

there are lots of folks mike's sound bites
might reach
that noams generative grammar can't

and to hold a higher truth like a power ring
suggests one use this gift wisely

you have this ring
why waste it lasering progressive fat
are you a plastic surgeon of the left ???

or simply a benway express rolling over anything that stumbles on to your tracks at the wrong time


anyone that doesn't feel regret
over the onbummer white house
is an ass-berger radical

the stage tears of sentimental bloated
spot light clowns not withstanding


Back to London. OP, the capitalist class has been more spooked than I thought. Here's a sample of some of the chatter I've been hearing:


And Brit conservatives, like comedy-writer Chris Hitchens' bro, Pete, have been conceding in advance that Cameron will "cave" and "throw more money at the problem" because he lacks the will to be sufficiently fascistic.


no he's not karl's hero noam C

Look at you being all soft and squishy!


i recently came across a deeply fallacious study of political turbulence

i noted one point :

throwing money at a self disrupted community
seemed only to internsify the turbulence
at least initially

so far as i could tell
none of these studied systems
convulsed enough to produce
a revolutionary baby
or a self abortion
and a fascist substitute devil doll


Is MJS back to USA yet? Suffering from High Table lag? Missing those back lawns? The croquet?


jc this speaks for itself:

" I have been participating in online and offline liberal activism since 2003, when Gov. Howard Dean ran for president. "

"I am a proud liberal and proud American
who believes in pragmatic solutions."

"This blog is devoted to examining issues from a liberal perspective, on factual bases and on fair analysis. This site is also deeply zealous about liberal Democratic activism. .....to educate as well as activate... reasoned debate and discussion."

" I am based in Silicon Valley"

this lib-prag mechanic
is after
not just
poor econcon chatter box
and nassau terrier
st paul kroogman

but the bigfoot pwog blogger
and matron of firebag lake

jane-anne hemline

"liberal activism": ROFL. "online and offline": MFAO.

OP-san, did you catch that Madam Hamster has come out on that post and scolded the authors for short-sightedness -- not error, but mere shortsightedness -- in insulting the left?

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