« Nice one, Mike | Main | Covering the waterfront »

A Daniel come to judgement

By Michael J. Smith on Saturday November 26, 2011 09:06 PM

Above, my new hero, Rabbi Meir Hirsch, the learned leader of the very Orthodox and very anti-Zionist group Neturei Karta. I have known about these folks for some time, partly because a good friend of mine, a thoroughgoingly atheist lapsed Jew and Bolshie, got very helpful support from them, a few years ago, to travel and do extensive research, which led to a couple of rather good books. I'm being coy about the name because I don't actually know just how confidential, or not, this arrangement was supposed to have been. Suffice it to say that Neturei Karta, though they are deep deep Talmudists and very into the higher esoterica of the religion, are anything but bigots when it comes to advancing the causes they believe in. They'll work with anybody.

Liberals, however, are a different breed of cat: far more sectarian, in fact, than the supposedly obscurantist scholars of Neturei Karta. And not nearly as smart.

Today a staunchly anti-Zionist Facebook 'friend' of mine -- who I wish was a friend in the 3D world, but whom alas I have never met -- posted a link to a rather interesting interview with Rabbi Hirsch. It reminded me again of the suppleness and subtlety of theological reasoning -- the same quality that sends me looking for earnest exegeses of the Epistle to the Romans on the radio when I'm sailing overnight. The analysis is a lot sharper than anything you'll find on NPR, when you get one of the good ones.

Perhaps predictably, my 'friend's' post brought howls of execration from liberal blockheads -- and not even because he was being anti-Zionist, which his friends and followers were used to, but for an altogether different reason:

Yes by all means opportunistically push these misogynistic scoundrels, "true torah jews," haha what a joke.

No one should be a fan. Its like taking the problematic yet strategic deployment of jewish voices then shrugging and throwing principle to the winds. They are circus freaks.

...misogynistic nut-jobs....

I love that misogyny to push an agenda has now been categorized under the banner of "human rights." btw, if this was a nutcase misogynistic Christian group, I'm willing to bet money you wouldn't even touch it, never mind post it.

Now the eminent Rav had had nothing to say in his interview about the Woman Question, so I assume that the anti-misogynists quoted here were simply operating on the premise that all Orthodox Jews are retrograde on this topic.

Maybe they are; I don't know. But I was struck by the hysterical and even rather dehumanizing rhetoric of the beautiful humanists -- ''circus freaks,' 'nutcases'.

And oh the misogyny! Clearly the Orthodox Jews' supposed or actual 'misogyny' was supposed to disqualify them utterly from ally status. As would, no doubt, their position on the Gay Question and any number of other touchstones, ranging from a progressive income tax to proportional representation.

In fact, what it comes down to is that liberals can't be allies with anyone who doesn't think exactly as they do on every topic of any consequence. If this isn't the definition of sectarianism, what is?

Comments (21)


For liberals to get out of their armchairs in support of any cause espoused by brown folks, the latter will first have to learn how to wage a 'secular, feminist, democratic, nonviolent battle' as Arundhati Roy once put it. Palestinians have never been much afraid of the religious types, it's those who were adept at chanting slogans such as "socialism", "brotherhood of labor", "universal values", etc. who make their blood run cold.


In fact, what it comes down to is that liberals can't be allies with anyone who doesn't think exactly as they do on every topic of any consequence. If this isn't the definition of sectarianism, what is?

Feh, feh I say!

Much like the Republican desire to drown government in a bathtub, Liberal hyper-sectarianism would be somewhat admirable if it were actually true.

But come on, Barack Obama is pretty good on some liberal issues, and absolute shit on others. Same with Ron Paul.

But if somebody calls themselves a Liberal I can make a pretty good guess that they like one of those guys and hate the other.


off topic but delightfulsunday morning reading....


"A Virginia company leading a national movement to replace classrooms with computers — in which children as young as 5 can learn at home at taxpayer expense — is facing a backlash from critics who are questioning its funding, quality and oversight."

"K12 Inc. of Herndon has become the country’s largest provider of full-time public virtual schools, upending the traditional American notion that learning occurs in a schoolhouse where students share the experience. In K12’s virtual schools, learning is largely solitary, with lessons delivered online to a child who progresses at her own pace."


liberals like say my favorite minya
paul krugman


are really quite soft if high handed
at least when dealing with
the ever so muddled
citizen plenitudes

the hordes of the great un-brain washed

my post above covers that most liberal of systems
free but compulsory
public schooling

but exclusionary
if only baby if only
yes their merit structures have many narrow gates
many partitions if you wish to move about
the real world meme-o-sphere
but "we " the glop minded are never wisked away
after all liberals are the guardians
of social tolerence and its staged progress by
well tended process
up the ladder
from partial"just bite your tongue then "
all the way up to deep mutual understanding
acceptance sharing ..why finally
all the way to indiscriminate
free form sex


" According to the Torah, the Zionist State of Israel should not exist, so it will be unmade"

unmade !!!!!!

according to KAPITAL
some day
the capitalist state
will not exist

-use yiddish inflection here---

" so it vill be unmade" ?????


Original sin
James callander

Tom's hatchet that turned like a worm on his patron


"callender was born in Scotland. He did not gain a formal education, but secured employment as a sub clerk in the Edinburgh Sasine office, the equivalent of the Recorder of Deeds. While working in that office, Callender published satirical pamphlets criticizing the writer Samuel Johnson. "Deformities of Samuel Johnson", published anonymously, appealed to populist Scottish sentiments.[1] Later he wrote pamphlets attacking political corruption. Callender's political writings were tinged with radical democratic egalitarianism, Scottish nationalism and a pessimistic view of human nature, and were critical of the liberal notion of progress.[2] An admirer of Jonathan Swift, Callender sought to cut the wealthy and the powerful down to size in his writing."

Just MJS's kinda swell Guy eh?


Particularly piquant
His attack on MJS Demi god
Sam Johnson
Sam is one of my pantheonic figures as well
and I trust father and I share a love of any attack on our worship objects

It zests up the rituals


i like lady roy
but this is profoundly wrong:

"Ordinary people in the United States have been manipulated into imagining they are a people under siege whose sole refuge and protector is their government. "

all the people want ..that is the ones of jacksoniam hue the white furious ones
is the elbow room to clear out the local vermin

far from fear they are driven by incompletely sublimated blood lust

"If it isn't the Communists, it's al Qaeda. If it isn't Cuba, it's Nicaragua. "

nope its none of the above except as an alibi libel
for some harvesting of the uppity local oppressed
and exploited

"As a result, the most powerful nation in the world is peopled by a terrified citizenry jumping at shadows. "

fuck feathers !!!!!

but then copmes this deep truth
if arrived at by a false pathway

" A people bonded to the state not by social services, or public health care, or employment guarantees,...."

wrecked by this of course "... but by fear"

let it read like this

"A peoples
against the state at odds if not war with state ...mostly that is except sometimes
when they bond to the state
not for social services, or public health care, or employment guarantees
but when their uncle sam rises to the hunt
the track down
when uncle goes on the war path revenge
with bloody revenge on his mind

uncle as avenger in chief

uncle as national sheriff

uncle as projection of their
oft times too poorly buried
homocidal drives

uncle as monster from the id

" an expression of rage against
the dying of the white man's light "

watch your head bub
here comes spread eagle sam
captain amerika ..dah judge !!!!



british pub se employess plan
general pub sec strike for november 30th

of course i support any strike by employees of any enterprise including state brain washing of its raw proto citizens

yes i'd allow the pub ed system to vanish down a virtual corporate hole
but i'd fight for top pay and benefits
for the brainwashers
even as the outfit slides under


the savage cleverness of opposing
taxpayers to public sector jobblers
may well not come off
if the unions handle the action effectively
ie with due concern for citizen services

yes the public polls 54 to 46 against the strike

but that can improve if serices limp thru

on the other hand
the public polls as oppossed to the tory-lib axe job too

there is substance here on the side
of the unions demands

right where the wedge is said to be most effective
where taxpayer/public jobbler interets conflict materially

on to upping the struggle


In violation of a Commandment, they worship an idol. In this instance, land.

Yahweh was no Dummy.

Happy Jack:

But come on, Barack Obama is pretty good on some liberal issues, and absolute shit on others. Same with Ron Paul.

But if somebody calls themselves a Liberal I can make a pretty good guess that they like one of those guys and hate the other.

If you've ever read Scott Lemieux, you would know that Obama is powerless on domestic issues unless sixty senators dance on the head of a pin to produce a progressive angel. How Ron Paul can enact his evil agenda is left unsaid, but obviously the man is insane on foreign policy.

Thanks for this, Michael. Incidentally, that Facebook post was public/Google-able, so you're welcome to link to it if you like.

If I ever return to the city from Gaza (and I'm increasingly unsure why I ever would), we'll have to finally meet and celebrate by doing something suitably haram.

sk, I think you're a little confused. Palestinian politics have always had strong secular and socialist trends (which have predominated for most of recent history). Today there are so many PFLP flags in Gaza that we joke about how the PFLP couldn't possibly be responsible for all of them! (This may not actually be a joke.)


Hi Joe. Gaza sounds very lively. I can see why you might want to stick around. But if you do find yourself back this way, by all means let me know. And I'm so glad to hear that the PFLP is still alive and kicking; that was the tendency within Palestinian politics that I was always 'closest to' back in the day. Always had a soft spot for Dr George H, with whom I have at least one thing in common: we were both choirboys in our youth.

yes the public polls 54 to 46 against the strike
Good lord, is that all? I would have expected 90/10. We are living in exciting times.

Joe, my link was not about Palestinian politics, but Palestinian perceptions which remain more or less obscure if not downright incomprehensible to most people in Europe and North America (although Jamal Zahalka who was being interviewed is a Palestinian politician elected to the Knesset where he and a few others of his ilk are tolerated in a manner reminiscent of how a handful of black politicians in Southern legislatures were treated for a short period after the Civil War).

His narrative of being at the receiving end of grandiloquent rhetoric from the Socialist-minded founding fathers of Israel—who then ruled over it with for the next 30 years—matches that of many in the West who were brought up on idealistic tales of the kibbutz at a time when all left-leaning parties—apart from a miniscule fringe—regarded Israel as a model Social Democracy (and in a truly Orwellian twist even as a leading standard-bearer of the anti-Colonial struggle against British imperialism). Ze'ev Sternhell has done much to shine light on the true nature of the "National Socialist" ideology that led to the founding of Israel, although again most of this information elicits such cognitive dissonance even from relatively knowledgeable observers that they usually prefer to look past it. Perhaps an anecdote will illustrate the reality of what was meant by "socialism" in British Mandate Palestine which later morphed into Israel:

...when Chanie Rosenburg, who subsequently was to marry Cliff, arrived from South Africa—full of starry eyed enthusiasm for the "socialism" of the kibbutz—the first job she and her fellow immigrants were given was to load a truck with rocks and then drive to a nearby Arab village to throw them at the inhabitants. Nowadays, of course, settlers carry Uzis rather than rocks, but the principle is much the same—to keep the natives in their place.


lu lu making a not bad point :

"Berube turns his attention to Iraq,
a war that he opposed
but with far less fervor
than his opposition to the movement
that emerged against it"

rules of engagement vary depending on your opponent

this Berube fellow
is a completely house broken fluffy little
yipper and yapper

cometh an ice man to the door..
and he turns into a toy wolf


from today's nyt
this editorial:

alleged dembot eletoral strategy for 2012:

" a center-left coalition made up, on the one hand, of voters who have gotten ahead on the basis of educational attainment — professors, artists, designers, editors, human resources managers, lawyers, librarians, social workers, teachers and therapists — and a second, substantial constituency of lower-income voters who are disproportionately African-American and Hispanic.........."

calling this
devil's coalition
is the now venerable nixon strateeegery
for the GOPers

join us elephants
rally to
a decent regular guy white citizens party


by the way todays white citizen party
is about keeping coloreds in the minority here
not about direct opporession

" forget jim crow forget separate and unequal
hey some of them citizen coloreds
even a good slug of em
will join us gladly in our crusade
to keep america american "

the absurd soft hands treatment
of that ignorant business narrowed clown
that pizza black
by tea wingers

is part of the huge effort to show
we ain't racists no more

"so long as he is culturally castrated
why a black candidate ...is fine with us
better then fine even ...he proves a point "

obviously o'barry fits that bill
for gliberals and assorted clue-less
minimum merit class types

Post a comment

Note also that comments with three or more links may be held for "moderation" -- a strange term to apply to the ghost in this blog's machine. Seems to be a hard-coded limitation of the blog software, unfortunately.


This page contains a single entry from the blog posted on Saturday November 26, 2011 09:06 PM.

The previous post in this blog was Nice one, Mike.

The next post in this blog is Covering the waterfront.

Many more can be found on the main index page or by looking through the archives.

Creative Commons License

This weblog is licensed under a Creative Commons License.
Powered by
Movable Type 3.31