[Following are two letters, a supportive query from Phyllis Bennis, a long-time astute source of analysis and information on Iraq and the Middle East, and a detailed reply by Tom Hayden, who also knows the politics of the region well, and is a founder of Progressives for Obama. The exchange shows, most of all, the independence, solidarity and open critical spirit at the core of what we’re trying to build here. --CarlD]
It is indeed representative of what they're building. There's plenty of gooey talk about pressure. There's some real effort to acknowledge that Obama favors maintaining the occupation of Iraq. There's no talk at all about what form this pressure will take once the audacity and the hope turn out to really and truly mean a continued occupation, just as Obama has promised. The exchange between Bennis and Hayden, veterans of the Kerry capitulation, reads like an informercial script -- for an enhanced personal self-ridicule product. Taking what they've done before into account, I'm tempted to call it conscious, cynical bad faith. There is no mystery and no question that chattering about "pressure" is orgulously fatuous when you make no provisions for dealing with treachery. There has to be a consequence and it needs to be painful enough to catch a politician's attention. Political veterans, who use their status as such to lend weight to their Obamaphilia, have no excuse for that omission.
Comments (15)
Here's some rank irony for you:
President Bill Clinton echoed [Hillary's] stance at a separate rally, saying it would be unfair to deprive Democratic voters in states such as Pennsylvania of the opportunity to vote for the candidate of their choice. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/mar/30/hillaryclinton.uselections2008)
I guess it goes without saying that they only prefer "voter choice" when one of those choices is them...
Posted by Tim D | March 30, 2008 1:22 PM
Posted on March 30, 2008 13:22
He's got a rohypnol morality, bless his heart, and wants every victim to have a chance to designate an orifice.
At this time, I doubt any of the white collar pwogs would know what to do with a serious, contested, ideologically diverse national election. They heap condescension on any candidate who comes close to actually supporting what they claim to believe. A few of the more daring will blushingly admit to past idealism, as part of the ritual self-infantilization their strange tribe requires.
Posted by Al Schumann | March 30, 2008 5:04 PM
Posted on March 30, 2008 17:04
People are still listening to Tom Haydn? Lenin used to say there is nothing more difficult then finding an ethical opponent in politics, I'm beginning to believe that.
Posted by Michael Hureaux | March 31, 2008 7:55 AM
Posted on March 31, 2008 07:55
"There has to be a consequence
and it needs to be painful enough
to catch a politician's attention."
right on !!!
let's make
"us" feel "their" pain for once
for we the weebles
the jack asses pain
is the only pain that brings relief
top of the world ... brother Al
Posted by op | March 31, 2008 8:01 AM
Posted on March 31, 2008 08:01
"We're certainly going to need a nuanced blend of inside and outside pressures"
"nuanced blend "
of i and o pressures ???
bonded PLUS bath tub pressure ???
as opposed to what
other sort ???
straight country squeezins ???
rot gut pressure
non blended
pissed straight into the tent
and right at their rubbery heads ???
Posted by op | March 31, 2008 8:15 AM
Posted on March 31, 2008 08:15
tommy h
hear's voices
"The other day I was talking to a friend,
a ( dead ?)Sixties revolutionary,
about the Obama movement, who laughed and recalled that at the beginning of the Southern Civil Rights era there were progressives sitting around arguing that demanding a hamburger and a cup of coffee wasn't radical enough. Meanwhile a whole generation was in its moment of transformation. The New Left and SDS owed their existence and achievements to the spirit of those young people who had the audacity to risk so much."
"a Sixties revolutionary"
scrooge revisited ???
here cometh
the ghost of progress past
Posted by op | March 31, 2008 8:42 AM
Posted on March 31, 2008 08:42
The average pwog's ability to rationalize his/her delusional voting cannot be measured by mere mortal science.
Posted by AlanSmithee | March 31, 2008 10:37 AM
Posted on March 31, 2008 10:37
Hey OP, a bit off subject, but I thought you might enjoy this article, being the big NATO fan that you are:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/mar/31/nato.usa
Posted by Tim D | March 31, 2008 12:53 PM
Posted on March 31, 2008 12:53
If you don't have the money to own a hamburger chain, the right to pull a lever is your slice of the pie.
Who wouldn't join in this audacious cause? Do you want to have to admit to your grandchildren that you never jumped aboard the Reagan Revolution? That the "entrepreneurial spirit" wasn't enough hope for you?
Posted by Michael Dawson | March 31, 2008 12:58 PM
Posted on March 31, 2008 12:58
tim d :
"Bush will try to maintain momentum for the organisation's (nato's)
eastward expansion to take in the Balkan states of Albania, Croatia and Macedonia, putting the former Soviet states of Ukraine and Georgia on track for membership..."
okay ....but then this ...
" ... attempt to ease strains with Russia."
now THATS
a job for madonna
"go to it girl...
Putin's waitin' "
Posted by op | March 31, 2008 3:25 PM
Posted on March 31, 2008 15:25
I thought I might get into a political debate here, but I can't find much in the way of politics--you know, like Lenin defined it, concrete analysis of concrete conditions, then 'Who-Whom', who can do what to whom. I know you're against the Dems, any Dem, but are you for McCain, the Greens, or staying home studying POMO stuff? Can't tell from these posts.
Posted by Carl Davidson | March 31, 2008 9:57 PM
Posted on March 31, 2008 21:57
Carl, my man, I'm not only for stayin' home from the polls, I'm all for stayin' home, throwin' the brewskis in the cooler, twistin' up the doobies, settin' up the lounge chairs in the yard, kickin' back, and watchin' the Donkeycratic Ship O'Fools do its imitation of STS 107.
Oooo-ooohhhhh...
Aaaa-aahhhhhh...!
Posted by Mike Flugennock | April 1, 2008 3:47 AM
Posted on April 1, 2008 03:47
Carl, calm down man! Your inability to satisfactorily pigeonhole is your problem. You cannot blame it on anyone else. You and the other pwogs want to be taken seriously. Okay. What form will the Bennis/Hayden pressure take once the audacity and the hope turn out to really and truly mean a continued occupation?
Posted by Al Schumann | April 1, 2008 7:06 AM
Posted on April 1, 2008 07:06
Ahhh, another armchair revolutionary.
Only this time it's lawn chairs and beer
A tip of the hat to the proletariat, I suppose...
LOL
http://progressivesforobama.blogspot.com
Posted by Anonymous | May 17, 2008 9:40 AM
Posted on May 17, 2008 09:40
Is that you, Carl? There's been some water under the bridge since this thread got started. The highly touted pressure campaign has fizzled into making excuses for Obama and mounting vicious attacks against Reverend Wright. Sadly, that's all the campaign has accomplished -- outside of harvesting donations and snagging a few more delegates. Obama's health care plan is still Romneycare. His plan for ending the war still consists of leaving a "residual" force and his overall economic plan is still a hodge podge of "post-ideological" merit class bromides.
Posted by Al Schumann | May 17, 2008 10:37 AM
Posted on May 17, 2008 10:37